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Keith Keller
Guest
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 Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it wit |
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On 2008-10-23, Sidney Lambe aka Tom Newton aka Alan Connor
<nospam@nospam.invalid> trolled:
| Quote: | Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> wrote:
Sidney Lambe <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
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[from /etc/rc.d/rc.4]
| Quote: | echo "Hey, you don't have KDM, GDM, or XDM. Can't use runlevel 4 without"
echo "one of those installed."
The script bitches if you _don't_ have xdm installed AND you try to go
into runlevel 4.
How would it log you in without going through xdm or some other display
manager? When would the user see a login prompt?
They can do what myself and many others do: login at the console
and run startx which calls xinitrc which calls a window manager
which comes up with an xterm in it. And any other apps you want
to run at boot.
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They can do that *in runlevel 3 which is the default runlevel for
Slackware*. If rc.4 is being called, the user went out of his way to
select runlevel 4, so he shouldn't be surprised if it wants a
graphical login manager. (Alternatively, he unwisely modified inittab
to call rc.4 in runlevel 3. That's unwise.)
| Quote: | xdm isn't necessary, but logging in is necessary. To log in, you can
use the default runlevel 3 with agetty, or you can use runlevel 4 with
xdm, kdm, or gdm.
Sure.
I have a function:
x () { startx ; }
So all I have to do is login and enter "x".
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Did you read Beej's post? Obviously not.
| Quote: | With kdm and gdm there's a pulldown menu with all the crazy window
manager/desktop options. I use kdm to log in, but then I use fvwm, not
Beej uses fvwm ^^^^
KDE.
I wouldn't have thought you'd use kde, Mr. Beej.
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Did you read Beej's post? Obviously not. He uses fvwm. He probably
used kdm because it has handy features that xdm does not. He probably
uses a graphical login manager because he spends most of his time in X,
so there's no point in logging in to a getty then always having to run
startx.
| Quote: | I run screen on tty1 and bring up X and ratpoison on tty3 when I need it.
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Do you use Slackware? If so, you're either a lying sack of shit, a
complete moron, or you've actually modified inittab not to call up a
getty on tty3. In Slackware's default runlevel 3 gettys are run on
tty[1-6]. I'm going to go with the first two, and guess that you're
running X on tty7, as a default Slackware install would.
In Slackware's default runlevel 4, an extra getty hangs out on tty6,
IIRC. I usually modify inittab to run gettys on all of tty[2-6] in
runlevel 4, just in case I really b0rk X. :)
| Quote: | I'll be posting a page of links for the newbies on alt.linux.
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The best advice I could give to newbies is to ignore all your so-called
''advice''.
--keith
--
kkeller-usenet@wombat.san-francisco.ca.us
(try just my userid to email me)
AOLSFAQ=http://www.therockgarden.ca/aolsfaq.txt
see X- headers for PGP signature information |
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Sidney Lambe
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?) |
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Sylvain Robitaille <syl@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
[delete]
Off-topic drivel because he doesn't want this topic
discussed.
Take a look at what he doesn't want you to see:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/msg/e0c940fc86096b
Sid
--
contact: http://tinyurl.com/5jxzoj
googlegroups users see:
http://tinyurl.com/5mbs7c |
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Sidney Lambe
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?) |
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Sylvain Robitaille <syl@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
[delete]
More off-topic ramblings snipped.
Here's what he doesn't want you to see:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/msg/e0c940fc86096b
Sid
--
contact: http://tinyurl.com/5jxzoj
googlegroups users see:
http://tinyurl.com/5mbs7c |
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Sylvain Robitaille
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it wit |
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notbob wrote:
| Quote: | x () { startx ; }
So all I have to do is login and enter "x".
....which, again, opens the default KDE. ...
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*if* KDE is installed, of course. "Sidney's" great accomplishment is
being able to do the above on Slackware without having installed KDE.
(if that makes you go "wooptedoo!" you're on the right track ...)
He believes that newbies to Linux won't know any other way but to go
ahead and install KDE, and won't bother investigating any other options.
He would try and "save" them, by having Slackware's default X environment
be something other than KDE (ratpoison, or perhaps "ODE", it seems).
"Sidney" believes that KDE prevents the user from operating at a
command-line. Others have tried to correct him on this matter, but he's
incredibly obstinate and historically impervious to Clue. Oh well...
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sylvain Robitaille syl@alcor.concordia.ca
Network and Systems analyst Concordia University
Instructional & Information Technology Montreal, Quebec, Canada
---------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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Eef Hartman
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome |
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Beej Jorgensen <beej@beej.us> wrote:
| Quote: | With kdm and gdm there's a pulldown menu with all the crazy window
manager/desktop options. I use kdm to log in, but then I use fvwm, not
KDE.
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At home I use XDM to log into xfce (as because of space limitations
I don't have any kde/kdm packages installed there),
at work I use kdm to get to the same (XFCE) environment (but as
the machine is a pure clone of our standard "workstation" full
KDE is available for those who want it - although I do not belong
to that group).
The standard "workstation" allows anyone of the group to login to
any machine, so the setup of Slackware is not user specific (but
the configs in your (shared) home dir, of course, ARE).
--
*******************************************************************
** Eef Hartman, Delft University of Technology, dept. SSC/ICT **
** e-mail: E.J.M.Hartman@tudelft.nl, fax: +31-15-278 7295 **
** snail-mail: P.O. Box 5031, 2600 GA Delft, The Netherlands **
******************************************************************* |
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Michael Black
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?) |
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On Wed, 22 Oct 2008, Sidney Lambe wrote:
| Quote: | Sylvain Robitaille <syl@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
[delete]
More off-topic ramblings snipped.
Here's what he doesn't want you to see:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/msg/e0c940fc86096b
Apparently there's a big conspiracy to make sure nobody sees it. Google |
says it is unable to find that message.
A far more likely explanation is that you've done it wrong.
The trick to being an "expert" is to try things where nobody sees
you, and then you come off looking capable. But if you err in public,
that blows the cover.
Michael |
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notbob
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it wit |
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On 2008-10-23, Sidney Lambe <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | x () { startx ; }
So all I have to do is login and enter "x".
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.....which, again, opens the default KDE. One can go from any tty,
login, and run:
$startx /etc/X11/xinit/xinit.rc.foo
foo=desktop mgr, being any one of six choices in slack. These cas easily be
aliased.
nb |
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notbob
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:58 pm Post subject: Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it wit |
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On 2008-10-23, Sylvain Robitaille <syl@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | incredibly obstinate and historically impervious to Clue. Oh well...
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LOL..... |
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Robby Workman
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it wit |
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On 2008-10-23, notbob <notbob@nothome.com> wrote:
| Quote: | login, and run:
$startx /etc/X11/xinit/xinit.rc.foo
foo=desktop mgr, being any one of six choices in slack. These cas easily be
aliased.
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Why not just use xwmconfig(1) to set your user's default?
Then you can do only "startx" instead...
-RW |
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Robby Workman
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject: Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?) |
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On 2008-10-22, Sidney Lambe <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | ["Followup-To:" header set to alt.os.linux.slackware.]
Robby Workman <newsgroups@rlworkman.net> wrote:
On 2008-10-21, Sidney Lambe <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
A clarifying note: Slackware does not just "come" with kde on it. It
is a part of its default install and is heavily pushed by all the
main people at Slackware.
No, it's not. I neither use nor recommend kde.
Why do you bozos keep posting stupid statements like that?
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Did you even bother to read what *YOU* wrote? You said:
"[KDE] is heavily pushed by all the main people at Slackware."
Last I checked, I was one of the "main people at Slackware" (whatever
that means). Therefore, your statement logically expands to:
"[KDE] is heavily pushed by [me]."
That's incorrect, as I've already pointed out. I realize that logic
and reasoning aren't your strengths, but surely you can manage this
simple jump.
| Quote: | You don't have to use or recommend kde _personally_. The
slackware website and docs and installation utility and system
initialization scripts do it for you.
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You've already been corrected on these points as well.
| Quote: | I'm sure glad that you don't bother thinking before you run
your mouth.
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I do, but then, refuting the crap you say doesn't require much thinking.
| Quote: | You want to produce ignorant appliance operators that you
have by the balls because they don't understand linux at all,
but just some kindergarten cartoon eye candy artificial
interface.
|
Of course. That's why I am an active contributor to the unofficial
Slackware wiki, at the official Slackware forum on LinuxQuestions.org,
on this newsgroup, on multiple IRC channels related to Slackware and
several upstream projects, and maintain quite a few howto documents
for various things. In damn near every instance of doing user support,
I make a conscious effort to explain the underlying reasons for things
along the way, and a search of my posting history will confirm that.
The same can be said of Eric Hameleers and Alan Hicks, and countless
others here on usenet that you continue to badmouth.
| Quote: | You aren't going to bully me, Robby. Never in a million
years.
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I don't want to bully you - you're not worth the effort.
Granted, it would be nice if you'd gulp down a big cup of STFU,
but I'm content with just correcting your misinformation.
| Quote: | And YOU are an effing LIAR.
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There you go with projection again.
-RW |
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Sidney Lambe
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:58 pm Post subject: Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it wit |
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Sylvain Robitaille <syl@alcor.concordia.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | notbob wrote:
x () { startx ; }
So all I have to do is login and enter "x".
....which, again, opens the default KDE. ...
|
No it doesn't. First of all, there's no kde on my box, so
it can't be opened under any circumstances.
Here, startx calls xinitrc which brings up the xserver and opens
a window manager.
Yes. notbrains, you can actually edit those files.
| Quote: |
*if* KDE is installed, of course. "Sidney's" great accomplishment is
being able to do the above on Slackware without having installed KDE.
(if that makes you go "wooptedoo!" you're on the right track ...)
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It isn't difficult at all. Never said it was.
Do you even know what honesty is?
| Quote: |
He believes that newbies to Linux won't know any other way but to go
ahead and install KDE, and won't bother investigating any other options.
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That's what the technocrats running Slackware want them to do.
Obviously.
| Quote: | He would try and "save" them, by having Slackware's default X environment
be something other than KDE (ratpoison, or perhaps "ODE", it seems).
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No. I never said anything like that.
You are an incredibly dishonest person.
I don't care what the technocratic corporate sellouts at
Slackware do.
Getting around you is simple as pie. Slackware, like any distro,
can easily be modified.
| Quote: |
"Sidney" believes that KDE prevents the user from operating at a
command-line.
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You are lying AGAIN.
I never said any such thing.
You are a disgusting human being.
Here's what I have said:
It isn't kde that prevents people from learning how the linux
operating system works and from using bash to create their
own, individualized user interfaces.
It's people who push artificial user interfaces like kde on
the newbies and don't tell them they have another option and
and offer to teach them that other option too.
People like the technocratic corporate puppets at Slackware.
Dishonest people like you.
| Quote: | Others have tried to correct him on this matter, but he's
incredibly obstinate and historically impervious to Clue. Oh well...
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That's right. I don't let dishonest bullies like you push me
around.
The fact that you are so willing to lie tells everyone what kind
of person you are and that you know you are wrong.
Here's what these dishonest bullies don't want you to think about:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/msg/e0c940fc86096b
Fellows? If you don't like what I have to say, here's what you can
do about it:
1. Get down on your hands and knees.
2. Pucker up.
3. Kiss my ass.
Sid
--
contact: http://tinyurl.com/5jxzoj
googlegroups users see:
http://tinyurl.com/5mbs7c |
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Dan C
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Slackware and KDE (was: Re: WTF is it with ubuntu?) |
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On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:51:42 +0000, Robby Workman wrote:
| Quote: | You aren't going to bully me, Robby. Never in a million
years.
I don't want to bully you - you're not worth the effort.
Granted, it would be nice if you'd gulp down a big cup of STFU,
but I'm content with just correcting your misinformation.
|
LOL! I'd like him to gulp down a big cup of friggin arsenic.
RW, here's a cup you can save for passing out to the clueless in the
future, and I'll pass it along to Sidney/Tom/Alan right now for his
gulping pleasure:
http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/hot-cup.jpg
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org |
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No_One
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:30 am Post subject: Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it wit |
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On 2008-10-23, Sidney Lambe <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
| Quote: | It isn't kde that prevents people from learning how the linux
operating system works and from using bash to create their
own, individualized user interfaces.
It's people who push artificial user interfaces like kde on
the newbies and don't tell them they have another option and
and offer to teach them that other option too.
|
Assume all that you have stated is true...here's a thought, it's the
individual's responsibility to investigate and learn. There is nothing in
the world to prevent that activity.
| Quote: |
People like the technocratic corporate puppets at Slackware.
Dishonest people like you.
Others have tried to correct him on this matter, but he's
incredibly obstinate and historically impervious to Clue. Oh well...
That's right. I don't let dishonest bullies like you push me
around.
The fact that you are so willing to lie tells everyone what kind
of person you are and that you know you are wrong.
Here's what these dishonest bullies don't want you to think about:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.misc/msg/e0c940fc86096b
|
Once again, this url is useless, just a google error message. You did check
before you posted...right??
ken |
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Sidney Lambe
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:32 am Post subject: Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it wit |
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# Followup-To: alt.os.linux.slackware
Robby Workman <newsgroups@rlworkman.net> wrote:
| Quote: | NOTE: I sincerely apologize to everyone suffering through this thread,
but on the off chance that some new user is reading Sid's worthless
drivel and not realizing that he's so full of shit his eyes are brown,
I feel obliged to set the record straight.
|
You feel obliged to attack anyone who points out the fact that
slackware has sold out to the corporations backing kde (and to a
lesser extent, gnome), who want to destroy linux by turning it
into a windows clone. They throw these big parties disguised as
'business seminars' and wine and dine the leaders of slackware
and now you aren't the 'hacker distro' anymore, but just another
sellout distro turning out ignorant appliance operators rather
than people who really understand linux.
http://troy-at-kde.livejournal.com/14690.html
That's one of about a thousand hits that this search string turned up:
"patrick volkerding" kde conference OR seminar
(He's the leader and founder and owner of slackware incorporated)
It's not a "conference", it's an expensive vacation disguised
as a conference. A bribe, in-other-words.
Slackware does not just "come" with kde on it. It is a part of
its default install and is heavily pushed by all the main people
at Slackware.
kde site:slackware.com
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=kde+site%3Aslackware.com&btnG
217 hits
On ONE effing website that offers a computer operating system with
over a thousand applications on it, not counting kde.
Sylvain Robitaille and you and the other lying bullies on aols keep
denying this, but let's take a look at the system initialization
script for runlevel 4 on slackware 12.0:
/etc/rc.d/rc.4
#l rc.4
#! /bin/sh
#
# rc.4 This file is executed by init( when the system is being
# initialized for run level 4 (XDM)
#
# Version: @(#)/etc/rc.d/rc.4 2.00 02/17/93
#
# Author: Fred N. van Kempen, <waltje@uwalt.nl.mugnet.org>
# At least 47% rewritten by: Patrick J. Volkerding <volkerdi@slackware.com>
#
# Tell the viewers what's going to happen...
echo "Starting up X11 session manager..."
# Try to use GNOME's gdm session manager. This comes first because if
# gdm is on the machine then the user probably installed it and wants
# to use it by default:
if [ -x /usr/bin/gdm ]; then
exec /usr/bin/gdm -nodaemon
fi
# Someone thought that gdm looked prettier in /usr/sbin,
# so look there, too:
if [ -x /usr/sbin/gdm ]; then
exec /usr/sbin/gdm -nodaemon
fi
# Not there? OK, try to use KDE's kdm session manager:
if [ -x /opt/kde/bin/kdm ]; then
exec /opt/kde/bin/kdm -nodaemon
elif [ -x /usr/bin/kdm ]; then
exec /usr/bin/kdm -nodaemon
fi
# If all you have is XDM, I guess it will have to do:
if [ -x /usr/bin/xdm ]; then
exec /usr/bin/xdm -nodaemon
elif [ -x /usr/X11R6/bin/xdm ]; then
exec /usr/X11R6/bin/xdm -nodaemon
fi
# error
echo
echo "Hey, you don't have KDM, GDM, or XDM. Can't use runlevel 4 without"
echo "one of those installed."
sleep 30
# All done.
First it looks for gnome, which is a bit weird. But right on
track because it's basically the same thing as kde. Many of the
corporations behind kde also back gnome, because they may be
competitors but they both want you using a graphical desktop
environment rather than running linux directly.
Then the script looks for kde. And if it doesn't find it it
actually bitches that all you have is xdm installed.
I run X here and don't use xdm, so obviously not even it is
necessary. What you are seeing here is a special runlevel
devoted to graphical desktop environments.
And this is run whenever a newbie boots up slackware.
Yet these liars have posted here many times that graphical desktop
enviroments are _optional_ on slackware.'
No newbie is going to mess with the system initialization scripts.
And since kde installs by default, that's what they are going
to find themselves faced with.
Duh.
And that's what I'm talking about: How the newbies are treated,
not what the pros can do.
[delete]
Sid
--
contact: http://tinyurl.com/5jxzoj
googlegroups users see:
http://tinyurl.com/5mbs7c |
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notbob
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:21 am Post subject: Re: Slackware Sells Out To KDE/Gnome (was: Re: WTF is it wit |
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On 2008-10-23, Robby Workman <newsgroups@rlworkman.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Why not just use xwmconfig(1) to set your user's default?
Then you can do only "startx" instead...
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Yet another way. Ain't slack great? 
nb |
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